A Practical Guide To Thriving Church Life Groups (Part 2 of 2)

If you’ve ever heard “join a life group” and thought, OK but what do you actually do there, we get it. Pastor Joey sits down with Pastor Ed to spell out the real nuts and bolts of a healthy church life group, including the simple rhythm that makes it sustainable: a little fellowship, clear prayer requests, then a Scripture-centered discussion that follows a sermon-based Bible study guide. We also talk about why “hard start, hard stop” matters more than people think, especially for parents, commuters, and anyone hesitant to get stuck in a three-hour meeting.

From there, we dig into what makes a good group different from a bad one. The goal is participation, not one person talking the whole time, and creating an environment where you’d feel comfortable inviting an unbelieving neighbor. That means keeping the Bible as the center, treating it like shared ground, and refusing to derail the night with politics or awkward rabbit trails. Ed also explains how leader training and mentorship help groups handle tough questions without requiring leaders to be scholars.

We end with the big obstacle most people feel: “What if it’s not the right fit?” You’ll hear why chasing a perfect match can miss the point, why intergenerational community accelerates maturity, and why the best group is often the one you can consistently attend based on distance and schedule. If you’re on the fence, let this be the push to take one concrete step: show up, try a few groups, and stick with it long enough to see real change. Subscribe for more conversations on real life and real faith, share this with a friend who needs community, and leave a review with the biggest question you still have about life groups.

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Transcript

Why Mixed-Age Groups Matter

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I was involved in a very, very large college. I wasn't I was a pastor at a church that had a very large college ministry, thousands of college students in the Raleigh Durham area. And we would do surveys of our college students. And every single time they would always say, Here's what I really need help with. I need help with figuring out how to be a grown-up. I need help with figuring out how to find a wife. I need to figure out how to have a career. And I would always say, Hey, you see that guy over there that's 60? He has four godly kids and a 40-year career at IBM. Why don't you go hang out with him? He can teach you all of those things. He's one of our elders, and they were, and they were like, No, I'd rather just hang out with college students.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

I'm like, but the college students are as dumb as you are. They don't know anything. Pooling our collective ignorance is not how you disciple people. And so having- I love how straightforward you are, bro. So having a group that has it doesn't mean the people with gray hair are going to always have the right answer. Of course. The people with gray hair might be on, they might have had a disastrous life and that God has now just turned. But the uh but to have young and old and kids and no kids all in one group. If you're in your 20s and just graduated from college and you're looking for a group, find a group with some of the some some sweet uh elderly people who have succeeded at all spiritually succeeded at all the things you want to succeed at and go hang out with those people.

SPEAKER_06 1:17

The reality. The reality. The real life meets real faith.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

Welcome to the reality is podcast. We're here today to talk about real life and real faith. My name is Joey. I brought Ed back with me because last week we were talking about life groups and starting up life groups. And this week we want to be talking about well, what do you actually do in a life group? What does it look like? And so, hey, before we get started, I want you guys to do us a favor. Would you like, subscribe, share this with your friends, and click on the bell. That way you're never missing an episode of the Reality Is Podcast. So we're gonna dig into this one. Like I said, last week we were talking about why Life Group matters, what's community look like? What does it look like stepping into it? But today, I want to talk about the more practical side of a life group and what actually happens inside of a life group. How does life group change your life? And so that's what we're gonna do. We're just gonna start with this, we're gonna break it down. Can you tell me in a healthy, a healthy, thriving life group, what does it look like and what actually happens inside of a life group?

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Sure. So there's a couple of things. First of all, when you think about the the structure of the of the time, uh what most groups are gonna do, if you're not in a group and you're wondering what do they even do in a group, we want them to have some time, even though it may be brief, but some time of fellowship. Yeah. Hi how you doing? How's everybody doing? Some time of prayer request. Those two things are usually together. They'll spend some time going around the table, what's going on with you? Oh, here's what's happening. We have a laugh about what happened with at work or with my boat, or and here's what you can pray about. So a chance for people to get, if they're doing it at a home, there may be a meal involved, that sort of thing. And then after usually prayer requests, sometimes people will do it at the end, but uh, and then spend the rest of the time working through what we call the life group guide. And the life group guide is basically a Bible study guide that follows along with the sermon that Richard preached on Sunday or Wednesday, depending on which service you attend, and and basically guides you through a deeper discussion of the passage. You don't have to have been to church on Sunday. If you missed Sunday, you can still go to Life Group because we are just studying the same passage. It can be standalone if it needs to be.

Hard Start Hard Stop Boundaries

SPEAKER_05 3:44

Yeah, and ours basically at this church, it is a sermon-based life group. And so exactly what the pastor is teaching, you're able to go back, dig deeper into it. Because, and even Richard has said this from the pulpit. Guys, I I don't have time to really dig deep into this. I'm giving you an overview of what the scripture says. I'm giving you, you know, application points to what we're doing, and then you take those, and then you say, okay, now we're going to get you guys in a group and you're going to dig deeper into this. You're going to start studying this.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

I also recommend to our group leaders that your group have, even though you may have a lot of what's of soft time at the beginning and at the end, you need to have kind of a hard start, hard stop so that people who are limited on their time know, yeah, well, we're going to get together at 5:30, but Bible study, fellowship prayer, that's going to start at six. And so that way the person who's coming from West Ashley knows six is when I really need to be there. And then we need a hard out. You want, well, we're going to hang out, we're going to go out in the front yard and we're going to play cornhole or we're going to do whatever. That's great. But just make sure it's clear we're done at seven so that people with kids can feel like they can leave without leaving early or being rude. Uh, you just want to make it that just makes it accessible to people, particularly with people with tight schedules, little kids, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 5:01

I've heard that before, and that's a really good point to say, hey, I know when we're going to start, and I know when we're going to finish. Now, it it gets a little loosey in there, especially if it's at your home. And then when you start doing life together, you know, all those type of things change. Because, yeah, we have studies at this time, study ends at this time. But then there's always the, yeah, we're gonna hang out afterwards, we're gonna talk, we're gonna just we're gonna have fun. But give people a chance to get into it. It's fine for people who like are okay with that. But then you've got some people at home going, whoo man, do y'all ever plan on leaving?

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Because you know I'm trying to go to sleep. Well, and that's that's not a problem I have. You you know me. When I'm done, I just leave. And so I have no I have no uh no social qualms about that at all. But some people really they really they really don't want to be impolite, and so having a hard. We're we're done. Of course, we're all gonna go hang out. If you want to stay, you can, but if you need to go, by all means go.

SPEAKER_05 5:56

Uh I I heard from people in my group who were part of another group, and I'm not gonna sell that person's group out. But that person, when the study was over and people were trying to hang out, he said, Okay, look, there's the door. I'm going to bed now. That's right. Yeah. And and y'all, yeah. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. But but y'all, y'all, the door's that way, my bed's this way, and I'm jumping in my bed, which is kind of funny.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Confession time. Sometime even on Sunday night discipleship, they all they will stand around and talk and talk and talk. And so I start, I'm done talking, I've used all my words. And so I start cleaning up all the papers and they're talking, and then I move the trash out and they're talking, and then I just start one by one flicking the lights out until they know to go home.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

So anyway.

Life Groups Vs Lift Groups

SPEAKER_05 6:40

So be knowing how it goes, and and so we've we've actually separated our things. And and you remember when this happened, you were part of implementing it. We have life groups here. Right. And we have lift groups, which are somewhat different. So will you break those two down just for people so they can understand.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

So, yeah. So if you hear us use the term lift group, what that means is this is a group that meets for a limited time or for a limited purpose or for a limited group of people. Yeah. So for example, and and usually the practical, what it practically what it means is they don't use the life group guy. They don't use the stone-based group.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

So, for example, our adults with special needs class is technically a lift group. They have their own curriculum, they do their own thing, they're for a special group. The marriage class that Vinny and Chrissy teach meets for a limited amount of time. It has its own sort of marriage enrichment curriculum. That's a lift group. Uh, we have we have a group that is uh made up of first responders that is mostly just a it's not really a Bible study group. They do Bible study, yeah, but it is a it really is a group about helping one another get through the career of being a first responder. Yeah. Uh and they they have their own curriculum that they do. And so those those are all lift groups. We love lift groups, but the absolute the bulk of our church, the life of our church is in the life group.

SPEAKER_05 7:55

Yeah, exactly. And that's why I I I forgot to even mention that before that we have life groups, we have lift groups, people have heard those two different terms and they go, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_04 8:04

It's like these Bible studies that may during the summer be around the year will be a lift group.

How Life Groups Change People

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Even what I do on Tuesday mornings, I'm not using a I'm not using the sermon base, I'm doing a different Bible study with guys early in the morning on Tuesday morning. That's more of a lift group because it's just a bunch of guys who are studying God's word together. Right. Nothing wrong with that. These are great things, but specifically I'm asking what a life group looks like. So thank you for for breaking that down. How can and I'm sure you've got some stories, and I'd love to hear you kind of break down for me how can a life group change somebody's life? And and I'm sure you've got stories of a real example of somebody's real life, how their life got changed. Last week you touched briefly on a guy who literally got hurt, and we were going, hey, how do we get involved? And the life group was already there. Right. I would say prior to being in that life group, you probably wouldn't have had had those people show up, right? But can give me some like like examples of real life change, not just for being there for people, but even spiritually, because I I know of people, and I'm sure I can share stories too, of people who have gotten into a life group, started digging deeper into the word, because again, you're not doing that on the Sunday morning, you're digging deeper into the word together. They're getting a better understanding of the word, and I've watched their life change.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

So yeah, so the growth process is a slow one. It just takes there there's no substitute for time in the growth process. We don't it's not how we think about things as an American as Americans. I'm a I'm a person who's involved in education, and I've watched over the last 25 years the mindset of education going from intellectual transformation to uh the acquisition and demonstration of certain skills. And we've just carried that over into our spiritual lives. And so we think, well, I learned the facts I was supposed to learn, therefore I am a mature person. And that's just not how that works. Yeah. It is, it is living life with God through his word and through his people, and there's just no substitute for doing it day in and day out, year after year for a lifetime. And so you do see people change. Sometimes the change is pretty radical depending on where they started, but for most of us, it's a slow, sometimes painful, sometimes frustrating process of growth. Yeah. Right. And so, and and you know this is true because you and in life group is where you see it most clearly. So, one of the ways to sort of think about your life is to uh, you know, we have these like in our in our admin building, we have this map, I think it's still there, this sort of map of the world where all of our missionaries are. And you sort of, if you go to like the Great Commission Center at Southeastern Seminary, there's a big map of the world and the unreached peoples and all of that. You should sort of think of your own heart like that map, right? And clearly, in in some parts of your heart, the gospel is thriving. And in some parts of your heart is still unreached by the gospel, right? And so I'll give you a perfect example of this is I just recently taught through the book of Philemon in my New Testament survey, and this is a perfect example. This man clearly, uh, he he was a he was a wealthy man living in the ancient Roman Empire. He was a slave owner, as was very common for wealthy people, and he became a Christian and uh his and his life transformed radically. Paul says he is kind, he is loving, he is a great witness, but there was but his personal economy involving slavery, his the gospel never made it there. And of course, the book of Philemon is about getting, is about preaching the gospel to that particular unreached area of his life. And and the the life group is it's the same thing. And and you know this is true because you sit next to people in life group and they'll say something about like every week, they're like, here's who I shared the gospel with, and I shared the gospel with this person, I talked to this person, this is my neighbor. And you're sitting there thinking, This is the most spiritual person in the world. Like, how is this even happening? And but the truth is that that's just on their map of their heart, the gospel is thriving in that area. But there are other areas where it's not thriving. And so, of course, the goal of discipleship is to uh is to have the gospel thrive in every part of the map of your heart. Your generosity, your witness, your Bible study, your life with your family, with all of those things. And you see it in other people when they're better at something spiritually than you are. That person is so generous. They give away, they're not even all that wealthy and they give away so much. Right. And that's just, man, the gospel is just thriving in that part of their life. And so, uh, but it just it just takes time. And if you will, if you will give yourself a minute to have some spiritual insight about yourself, you'll realize that you have actually probably grown a lot more than you think you have.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

Yeah. And I think you hit on a key point. It's not something that happens overnight. This is consistency. Yeah. We're talking about showing up on a weekly basis, digging deeper into your word with other people. And then that leads you to start doing it on your own. Yeah. And then, hey, guess what? I have a question. Hey, let me talk to somebody in the life group about this because I was reading this and they kind of understand this a little bit. And it's just this thing that that keeps going. I I've watched people go into life group with a completely closed-off heart. In in some cases, it's the older person bringing the younger person there, kid, saying, You have to sit here because I'm going to life group and you're coming to life group with me. Right. And you'll see the arms fold into and then over the next few weeks, the arms come down, and then they're like perking up. They're starting to listen. And then hey, you said this, but last week you oh oh now you're involved. Now you want to start talking. Let's go. And you've watched it change over time. That real life change can happen, and I believe will happen in LifeRoop if you give yourself the opportunity to go.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Right. And yeah, the the constant immersing yourself in the gospel and in the scripture is what transforms the human heart. That's as Paul says, that we will have the strength to comprehend that what is the height and breadth and depth and love, you know, the love of God which passes all understanding. And uh, and so that's and there's no there's no shortcut, there's no hack, there's no alternate method, there's no subscription service. You just have to be present with God's people, with the scripture by God's Spirit over and over and over again all for the rest of your life.

Marks Of A Healthy Group

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Yeah. So here's gonna probably be a weird question for you to tackle. You love weird questions for me. It's okay. Uh I want to talk about what makes a life group work. Okay. So what separates a good life group from a bad life group?

SPEAKER_04 14:46

I think the most obvious one is that a good life group makes is devoting a significant portion of the time to actually thinking and talking about the scripture. And and by talking about the scripture, I don't mean listening to the life group leader talk about the scripture. And I'll tell you, I am notoriously bad about that. I I don't, I've never met a silence that I could not fill with with plenty of words. I am far more comfortable talking for 50 minutes than I am sitting there awkwardly silent, waiting for someone to ask my question. For 30 seconds. Like you can't take 30 seconds of silence. Not at all. In fact, we we we we we were joking just before the podcast started that I have the my solution to class in in my uh academic class is very easy. If there's five seconds of silence, I just call on somebody and make them answer. Yeah. Don't necessarily recommend that in your life group, but probably not gonna work.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

They probably won't be showing back up.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Don't do it to new people, that's for sure. So uh that's uh that's yeah, I a part a group participation where people are sharing and talking together about the scripture. Even if they're just asking questions, even if they're just saying, I don't understand what Paul means here. Or or or being brutally honest and saying, I understand what Paul is, what Paul means here, I'm just not entirely sure before I walked in here today that I agree with that. Yeah. That's a that's a great place to start. Nobody's gonna be mad at you if you say that. Yeah, no, nobody's gonna be like, okay, all right, well, let's talk about it. Yeah. Let's talk. But until you actually know what you can't disagree with the scripture until you actually know what it says. And so that's the that's the number one reason why the the guide is structured the way it is. I'll say this too. This is the thing that doesn't get said a lot. But a healthy, thriving, a good life group is a life group that the group members feel comfortable inviting their unbelieving neighbors to come to the group. And that means, number one, as we as we talked about, there's an easy way in and an easy way out. They don't feel trapped. It's not gonna be super long. It's not come sit for three hours, it's come for 50 minutes. You prioritize the Bible. And that that's what makes that, believe it or not, talking about the Bible puts people at ease, right? I'm not going to your house, I'm not going to some rando's house to hear them muse about spiritual things. Like I don't, but but if we're gonna talk about the Bible, it's neutral ground. We can all talk about the Bible. And it also means that you you're gonna have you've trained your group members to not do or say things that are embarrassing. We don't we don't care what you think about Trump or Biden. Now is not the time for that. Now is the time to this neutral ground, talk about the scripture. You can save your politics for later when the group's over, rant whatever you want. Absolutely. And so the it's it's kind of a social contract. If you will bring your group members, then we will make sure this is a great environment for them to hear the gospel. And it and it changed, it radically changes the way you're you talk in your group for for the better. Nothing will make you life group leaders, nothing will make you a better leader of a life group than to have to explain and talk through and lead in a discussion of Luke 21 with someone who is not a Christian sitting right next to you on the sofa.

SPEAKER_05 17:47

I I like that. And speaking to the life group leaders, I think one of the things that you guys do here, and I think you do it very well, is you actually get with the leaders, right? Teach the leaders how to lead and prepare them for any, hey, I've got this obscure question, I've got this oddball thing, I've got like you you are preparing so they aren't just walking in blind or or not knowing what to do, like they know how to handle the situations. I think it's kind of important for me to make a good life group is to have good leaders in there. And and if we are committed to preparing our leaders and training up our leaders and teaching our leaders what they need to be doing and how they're supposed to be doing it, I think that's really gonna help a life group be better than just your average.

Training Leaders Mentorship Culture

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Yeah, no, there's no there's no doubt, there's no there's no substitute for good leadership. That's a hundred percent true. Uh, but don't think you have to be a Bible expert or a theologian or have a PhD to be a life group leader. Yeah. 100%. So yeah, so we we write the guide that you see on Sunday morning, which is one page, usually front and back, and sometimes depending on how long Richard's outline is, it has to be like an eight-point font. But Pete always, Pastor Pete always gets it onto one page. Um, and then we also write a commentary for the leaders, and we uh and so uh which is an the answer to the short answer quest to the uh observation questions, just so the leaders know what I'm asking in case they don't understand what's gravely getting at here. And then we try to write commentary for the discussion questions, the interpretation questions, and we do, as I'm sure you've seen, we do try to include in there hey, you might get a question about this. We can't we can't solve, we can't answer every question. And usually the the crazy questions are the ones you don't anticipate. Uh, but also our life group leaders, we all throughout the week, we take phone calls and texts and emails. Somebody in my group asked me about, you know, what do you say about? And then as you're you're right, all of our our leaders who are able, some of them are involved in ministries that don't allow them to do it, and we have other avenues, but all of our leaders are involved in mentorship, is what we call it. And meet Sunday morning, Sunday night, and uh yeah, and we just we we we're just trying to disciple our leaders to the next level by talking about Bible interpretation. Like our the first thing we went through, just a whole set of, we took a whole bunch of very mature Christians through just a very simple set of discipleship books. Here's how you would disciple a new believer, and then we just gave them all into a set and said, grab somebody and then do that. We've done a theology book, we've done a church history book, we've done, we're doing now kind of a Bible interpretation book, and so it's a lot of mentorship's a lot of fun. I kind of consider that my my real life group in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Yeah. And I and I love that because it's key to what we believe here at the church. We're discipling, we're mentoring, we're turning this over. So I love that you said, hey, we give them the book because we've just we've just done this with you. Now you go do this with somebody else. And and I love that. That that's great. I also believe hanging hanging out in a life group isn't really gonna get you much out of your life group. You can't just go and you can't just I I think a a a good life group doesn't allow anybody to just kind of hang. Or or we aren't getting together. I I should put it this way. We aren't just getting together so that we can hang out. I mean, we can hang out and we can go do barbecue, we can go to the pool, we can do all those type of things. And that'd be a great thing for your life group to do, by the way. I was gonna say, and we do that. We have times where we say, hey, hey, we aren't, because there are times where we say we aren't having life group. And we say, Okay, well, we don't have a sermon that we're going through this week, so we're gonna put some brisket on the grill. We're gonna, you know, we're we're still going to get together and hang out. That's very important. And it can be fun. Life group is very fun. We have a blast, we laugh, we joke, we cry together, we do all these things together. But I think a good life group has a purpose of why we're getting together. And I think the purpose is what makes the life group important, if that makes any sense. 100%.

Groups With Purpose And Mission

SPEAKER_04 21:39

Okay. I met years ago, so you may you may not realize this, but the uh most people don't. But the three largest Protestant churches in the world are in Seoul, South Korea. And uh I got to meet some of the leaders from one of the Presbyterian churches there, and I think at the time they had something like 160,000 members. It was it was insane, it was an insane number. And of course, their whole church is. Based around these, they called them cell groups back then, and they're basically little life groups. And I was talking to the guy, and of course, this was you know North Korea's right there across the border in the DMZ and all that. And uh he said, we developed this model that we have, we developed it sort of sort of late in the Cold War. And he said, because he said, and our thinking was this if the communists rolled across the border tomorrow and arrested all of our pastors, we wanted the life of our church to essentially continue uninterrupted. And that's the way they thought about groups. And that's not exactly how we do that because we don't normally have things like music worship and those kind of things in our groups. But I would very much like to think that if something terrible happened, like a pandemic and the government shut things down and that sort of thing, and we had to take a break, I would like to think that our groups could continue, that the life of the church could go on reasonably uninterrupted. And that's a good way to think about your life group. If your life group really isn't doing the life of the church in terms of prayer and Bible study and ministry and evangelism, then maybe that's a sign that your life group needs work. That's some some some areas to improve. In fact, uh, you want you want the hardcore version. Here's the hardcore version.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

I didn't ask for it, but okay. That that the uh that uh Korean pastor said if one of our groups goes six months without winning someone to Christ and baptizing them, we disband the group and put them with groups that are actually doing the work of the Christian. Wow. That's hardcore. That's deep. Yeah, no, that's hardcore. But but there's also an expectation that's making disciples who make a difference. That that's us. That's what we're doing. When we were, there's a there were I was working with some missionaries who were in East Africa and they were describing these the locations, and they're like, there's a church here, and there's a church here. And then he said, There's a gathering of believers here, and there's a church here, and there's a church here. And I wasn't sure if this was an if this was a translate, you know, if this was an English problem. And the missionary later told me he said, they don't consider that group a church yet because they haven't planted a church somewhere else. And until you actually do the work of the church, which is spread the gospel to another village, you don't actually get to be a church yet. They don't call you a church yet.

How To Join And Stick With It

SPEAKER_05 24:03

Wow. That's okay. So first steps now. First steps. I'm looking at the people out there who are listening to us and they're going, yeah, I kind of hear what you guys are saying, and maybe I agree with some of that, but I'm still unsure about actually jumping into a life group. What do you say to them? What do you say that actually helps them go, yeah, this is the right fit for you. This is what you need to be doing.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

The best thing that they can do is just is just to go to a group. To go and and the easiest way to do it, I think we talked about this last week on the blog. The easiest way to do it is to go on a Sunday morning. We have life groups that meet during both services so that you can go to a group and then go to a sermon and go hear the sermon, or you can hear the sermon and then go to a group and talk about the sermon that you just heard. And that way, you that way, you know, if you have small kids and you need to get up later, they can go. And then we have if you have youth, they only meet during the first hour. It's all about scheduling. But there are there are half dozen or more really great groups that meet on our campus on Sunday morning. You're already here. You just need to show up an hour and 15 minutes earlier and go to group. There's it's a the barrier to entry is easy. You just walk in and sit in a chair.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Uh, you don't have to drive to somebody's house and then just go or come early to the first service and stay because we have another life group right after the so you could do either or.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yeah, and and we always tell people, and our group leaders know this: visit three or four groups. Nobody's gonna be mad if you don't come back because you're you're you're in Chuck's group next door. Chuck didn't steal you, nobody's gonna be mad. We want you to the group, the the group that we that you'll go to is the group you should go to. And so that's that's that's by far, and just that's by far the easiest way to do it. Find the the easiest way to begin to become involved in a life group and stick it out for three months, six months. And I promise you, you're gonna love it. Or you're gonna find it essentially. You may think this group is really not a good fit for me. We'll find you another one. That's probably not the right way to think. But if it's what but if it will keep you in a group, we'll we'll we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 26:04

But that's literally my question. What if somebody says this isn't the right fit for me? So I'm glad you're gonna be able to do that.

Rejecting The Perfect-Fit Mindset

SPEAKER_04 26:08

So, first of all, Pastor Pete's gonna pull you aside and explain to you why that's the wrong question. Um and and and Okay, I'm glad Pastor Pete's not across the table. He would be right in doing so. Simply because we have this, and this happened, uh I won't bore you with the history, but about a hundred years ago or so, when we sort of started the sort of the the really beginnings of what we call the sort of the modern church growth movement, it really took off in the 70s and 80s. The principle was the more like the the best way to get people to come to church is to remove barriers. Anything that might stop them from coming, you remove that as a barrier. And so what that what you end up with is you end up with people who are the the uh it's called the homogenous unit principle. And the idea is is that if you want to, if you live in an area where uh there's a bunch of white upper middle class 40s, then build a church for them and they'll come.

unknown 26:58

Right?

SPEAKER_04 26:58

And then it'll be somebody else can build a church for the the 20 somethings and somebody else can build a church for the 60s, right? And the problem with that though is that that's not not even once is that for even a second how the scripture actually describes the church, God's people. Yeah and so uh there's and so the to have a church that is made up of black, white, hispanic, young, old, married, unmarried, with kids, no kids, retired, that's a very healthy church, obviously. And if it's a very healthy church, why on earth wouldn't it be a very healthy life group? I was involved in a very, very large college. I wasn't I was a pastor at a church that had a very large college ministry, thousands of college students uh in the Raleigh Durham area. And we would do surveys of our college students, and every single time they would always say, Here's what I really need help with. I need help with figuring out how to be a grown-up. I need help with figuring out how to find a wife. I need to figure how to have a career. And I would always say, Hey, you see that guy over there that's 60? He has four godly kids and a 40-year career at IBM. Why don't you go hang out with him? He can teach you all of those things. He's one of our elders, and they were and they were like, No, I'd rather just hang out with college students.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

But the college students are as dumb as you are, they don't know anything. Pooling our collective ignorance is not how you disciple people. And so have- I love how straightforward you are, bro. So having a group that has it doesn't mean the people with gray hair are gonna always have the right answer. Of course not. The people with gray hair might be on, they might have had a disastrous life and that God is now just turning. But the uh but to have young and old and kids and no kids uh all in one group. That if you're if you're if you're in your 20s and just graduated from college and you're looking for a group, find a group with some of the some some sweet elderly people who have succeeded at all spiritually, succeeded at all the things you want to succeed at and go hang out with those people.

SPEAKER_05 28:47

So I I've had people in our group, in our life group, and it wasn't a good fit of to for them just because of how far it was to get out of here. 100%. We're in Ridgeville. Like we're we're way out there. Now we have other people in Ridgeville who are close to us, of course, it makes sense. This guy was coming all the way, it was like 45-minute drive for him to come all the way to our life group. I felt like, okay, that because here's the other thing that happens when people have to drive so far, you're just gonna stirk on. How do I really need to drive that far? It's a Sunday night. I don't know if I want to, you know, and and that's gonna be more of a deterrent. Correct, yes. Well, well, I found somebody who's like five minutes in the same neighborhood. And I was like, hey man, I think this would be a better fit for you. But that's just you know, geographical fit, not a I don't think this is the right spiritual fit for you. I don't think this is the right fit because of the, you know, we're all couples and you're single or that. No, we've got young college students in in our group, we've got single people in our room, we've got older people in our group.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Yeah, as as as I think we said this last time as well, that the best, the the the the the group, the the best, the group you should go to is the one you will the best group for you is the one you'll actually go to. And so if it's on the if it's on a night when you're not tired, if it's on a night when you don't have to stay late at work, if it's not 45 minutes, yeah, those are all practical concerns that are absolutely that are absolutely vital.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Because we want you to go. And and you have been so how long have you been doing this like life group thing?

SPEAKER_04 30:22

So probably you you might even remember here. Well, I'm not talking here 28. Yeah, so it's been about eight, it's been about eight years here. Just here. Yeah. And then I was uh I was started out as a discipleship pastor at the church in Charlotte, so there's another five years, and then was an elder at the summit church in Raleigh Durham and was over was involved with our life group leaders there, and that was probably another decade. So yeah, I mean I had my first sort of paying ministry position, if you will. My first gym ministry job was in 1991 as a recent high school graduate starting in college, working working in a children's program. So I've got yeah, I got some time under my belt.

Why Doing Life Alone Is Risky

SPEAKER_05 31:00

Yeah. So and and that's what I'm thinking. Like listening to you talk about life groups, this isn't just something like, oh, we we've been doing it here at the church for the past you know four or five years. No, this is something that you you have watched and seen over the years, how it affects people's lives. And I think talking to somebody, looking at them and saying, okay, if you're not in a life group and you're still on the fence about should you or should you not, first of all, I'm gonna say yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do it. Find one and get involved with it somehow. And and if you don't know what to do, we've got the contact. Yeah, you can contact us, we'll let you know exactly. Or what you can do. Just show up to the building on a Sunday morning. Show up on a Sunday morning. We we can get you connected, but I think it's so valuable and so important. I I think a lot of people, and last week you were talking about a church our size, a church our size. Yeah, we we have a larger church, not the largest, but we have a larger church, and what's easy about larger churches is that you can come and try to hide, and you can well this was not happening. You can you can testify to this. If you come to our church, you're not hiding. No, we'll find you. You're you you're you're being stopped by multiple people to say hi, how are you, where are you from? Like that's that's gonna happen. But it's easy enough for you to say, I can get in and I can get out, and I cannot get involved, and I don't need anybody involved in my life, and I think that's a very sad and hard place to be at.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

And spiritually very dangerous.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

100%.

Final Push To Get Involved

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Yeah, so please, please, please, if you're on the fence thinking about, okay, I've heard you guys talk about actually I paid attention to both weeks. I listened to you guys both weeks talk about this life group thing, and you're still on the edge and you're still thinking about it. I'm just gonna say, do it. Right, get involved, find some way to start saying, I'm going to get a group of people around me who can start pouring into my life. I'm gonna start opening up to them so that they can come and walk alongside of me and do this life thing together. So as we close here, I just want to say once again, thank you. I know you took some time out, and then I threw on you, hey, we're gonna do two of them while you're here. But you hung out, you hung out and you did it. And it has been very valuable. And so you probably I'll just let you speak to it. There's probably people on the fence about this, and I'm gonna let you wrap up with our closing statement. The reality is, and just kind of nudge them somehow. Tell them the reality is about getting into the life group. Go.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Yeah, the the reality is you need to be in a life group because it is how God is going to uh minister the work of the church to you in your life for needs that you maybe don't even know that you have right now. The reality is uh that you need to be in a life group because it is how you're gonna minister, how you're gonna serve as a minister in God's church with the people around you. You need to know people to minister to them. And the reality is that you need to be sitting around a table or on a sofa with God's people, studying God's word, because it's how we actually have spiritual life. And so if you're listening to this and and you're not in a life group or you're not at crossroads, you need to find whatever the equivalent of that is in your church, whether it's Sunday school or connect groups or whatever you do. You need to gather together with believers on the regular to do ministry, to be ministered to, to do life with, and to study God's word together.

Closing Thanks And Subscribe Reminder

SPEAKER_05 34:46

Wow, man. And I'll just add the the reality is you cannot, should not, and not meant to be doing life alone. So get together with other people. It's what you need to be doing. So, man, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. Very valuable. And thank you guys for tuning in to the reality is podcast, where we're here talking about real life and real faith. Would you do us a favor? Would you like, subscribe, share this with some friends, and ring the bell. That way you'll never have to miss another episode of the reality is podcast. For now, we'd like to say, God bless you. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.